TDR 125 Lightburner Belgarda - 1992

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Re: TDR 125 Lightburner Belgarda - 1992

Messagede TDRSHINE le 30 Mar 2017 17:54

As anticipated, I've been busy in setting up a new engine block, with sportier configuration to use exclusively on track.

Leaving aside for the moment the preparation of the cylinder and the piston that are "work in progress", this is the first part of the upgrade that includes : a new profiled intake manifold, special works to the carburetor and reed valve, new air filter, a wing placed into the "Venturi" of the carburetor, adjustable ignition advance. 8)

Image


I've set up a second engine block, restored to new in all its parts, then I've started to test it across dyno runs an the at the end, on the track (altough my bike is the full power Belgarda version, as a modded engine, it can only be ridden on closed circuits). So I can place back my stock engine on my bike when I want to come back to everyday use on roads.

I engineered, designed and prototyped a special inlet manifold basing on my former project: this is shorter (this makes also carburetor manteinance easier :wink: ) and wider than the original. Made to optimize the volume of the flow to the reed valve at any engine speed. This gave an amazing fast response to any throttle openings and the engine has gained a few hundred RPM in the high-end, versus my already nice performing intake manifold.

I've tried different thicknesses aluminium block spacers between reed block and cylinder to increase crank-chamber volume. I decided to abandon this solution because it only gives a gain at low RPM, which could be a good thing if you are using your bike offroad.

Then I've tried a Dell'Orto VHSA 32 from a Belgarda TZR/R : the bike was very lazy under 8000 RPM, then the power "exploded" until 11500RPM, but when you come out from turns you have to use the clutch, to have a quicker sprint. So I decided to have a special processing of my standard Dell'orto PHBH 28, reboring to the maximum allowed by the body and smoothing the "Venturi". Obviously I had to have a new setup for the jetting. Great job : together with the new inlet manifold, the bike is so much more "aggressive" in the response, without loosing performance at low RPM. The sound of the engine is now deeper and even more since I've built a new air filter with very permeable sponge.

Image

To have better response coming out from circuit curves, I studied a wing that placed into the "Venturi" gives the effect to have a smaller carburetor until middle throttle openings ( but you can configure the position of the wing), and so more torque in the low RPM. Works fine, but carburetion setup is a little bit trickier.

I reworked also the reed valve, that has lost the original stoppers and uses double petal reeds. The bike runs smoothier in the midrange. The same in the high end.

Then, to "finish the job", I've made ignition advance adjustable. Only by a maximum of 4 degrees, since I have the same variable advance CDI as the TZR/R, and it's already "sporty". Tried at 4 degrees, and have a lot of gain in performance, but also some dangerous detonations, so I decided to lower the advance by 2 degrees. Enriched the jetting at any level, the bike is very quick in gaining RPMs along all the power curve.

Image

That's "all" for the moment, as soon I'll have a final dyno run to see which is the level of performance. From what I can feel, maybe 2-3 HP were gained, but the real difference sits on the driveability. You can run the bike at any RPM: so not an extreme tuning, just made it sportier, and having fun designing and prototyping all this stuff. 8)

[-X Only a few last words :
1) Do not do this tuning on bikes that you use on roads : in addition to not be allowed, if you really want to enjoy your bikes, have a turn or two on track. Enjoy yourself without taking risks.
2) The tuning I've given my bike, is the result of study, tests and very accurate setup : this means that these modifications, if executed improperly, could seriously damage your bike and yourself, at your own risk. I decline any possible responsibility.
Two strokes forever!
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Re: TDR 125 Lightburner Belgarda - 1992

Messagede TDRSHINE le 04 Avr 2017 10:12

By the way, does anybody know if there is some "straight" teeth primary gear version for our engine, instead of the original with helicoidal teeth? 8)

This solution would save a discrete amount of power losses at the cost of much more noise. :mrgreen:
Two strokes forever!
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Re: TDR 125 Lightburner Belgarda - 1992

Messagede Phillip93 le 04 Avr 2017 10:45

TDRSHINE a écrit:As anticipated, I've been busy in setting up a new engine block, with sportier configuration to use exclusively on track.

Leaving aside for the moment the preparation of the cylinder and the piston that are "work in progress", this is the first part of the upgrade that includes : a new profiled intake manifold, special works to the carburetor and reed valve, new air filter, a wing placed into the "Venturi" of the carburetor, adjustable ignition advance. 8)

Image


I've set up a second engine block, restored to new in all its parts, then I've started to test it across dyno runs an the at the end, on the track (altough my bike is the full power Belgarda version, as a modded engine, it can only be ridden on closed circuits). So I can place back my stock engine on my bike when I want to come back to everyday use on roads.

I engineered, designed and prototyped a special inlet manifold basing on my former project: this is shorter (this makes also carburetor manteinance easier :wink: ) and wider than the original. Made to optimize the volume of the flow to the reed valve at any engine speed. This gave an amazing fast response to any throttle openings and the engine has gained a few hundred RPM in the high-end, versus my already nice performing intake manifold.

I've tried different thicknesses aluminium block spacers between reed block and cylinder to increase crank-chamber volume. I decided to abandon this solution because it only gives a gain at low RPM, which could be a good thing if you are using your bike offroad.

Then I've tried a Dell'Orto VHSA 32 from a Belgarda TZR/R : the bike was very lazy under 8000 RPM, then the power "exploded" until 11500RPM, but when you come out from turns you have to use the clutch, to have a quicker sprint. So I decided to have a special processing of my standard Dell'orto PHBH 28, reboring to the maximum allowed by the body and smoothing the "Venturi". Obviously I had to have a new setup for the jetting. Great job : together with the new inlet manifold, the bike is so much more "aggressive" in the response, without loosing performance at low RPM. The sound of the engine is now deeper and even more since I've built a new air filter with very permeable sponge.

Image

To have better response coming out from circuit curves, I studied a wing that placed into the "Venturi" gives the effect to have a smaller carburetor until middle throttle openings ( but you can configure the position of the wing), and so more torque in the low RPM. Works fine, but carburetion setup is a little bit trickier.

I reworked also the reed valve, that has lost the original stoppers and uses double petal reeds. The bike runs smoothier in the midrange. The same in the high end.

Then, to "finish the job", I've made ignition advance adjustable. Only by a maximum of 4 degrees, since I have the same variable advance CDI as the TZR/R, and it's already "sporty". Tried at 4 degrees, and have a lot of gain in performance, but also some dangerous detonations, so I decided to lower the advance by 2 degrees. Enriched the jetting at any level, the bike is very quick in gaining RPMs along all the power curve.

Image

That's "all" for the moment, as soon I'll have a final dyno run to see which is the level of performance. From what I can feel, maybe 2-3 HP were gained, but the real difference sits on the driveability. You can run the bike at any RPM: so not an extreme tuning, just made it sportier, and having fun designing and prototyping all this stuff. 8)

[-X Only a few last words :
1) Do not do this tuning on bikes that you use on roads : in addition to not be allowed, if you really want to enjoy your bikes, have a turn or two on track. Enjoy yourself without taking risks.
2) The tuning I've given my bike, is the result of study, tests and very accurate setup : this means that these modifications, if executed improperly, could seriously damage your bike and yourself, at your own risk. I decline any possible responsibility.


Amazing ! I bet that all of these modifications have made a hell of a difference to the bike. I've read/heard about most of the modifications that you've done so she must go like a bomb..... :wink:
Anyway, well done, sounds brilliant =D<
You haven't mentionned the exhaust you're using, you running the stock version? And, why not install an electronic control box for the ignition, ie, a ignitech, that'll let you change the ignition advance but also the power settings ?
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No.............it's a 2 stroke!
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Re: TDR 125 Lightburner Belgarda - 1992

Messagede Phillip93 le 04 Avr 2017 10:47

TDRSHINE a écrit:does anybody know if there is some "straight" teeth primary gear version for our engine
TDRSHINE a écrit:By the way, does anybody know if there is some "straight" teeth primary gear version for our engine, instead of the original with helicoidal teeth? 8)

This solution would save a discrete amount of power losses at the cost of much more noise. :mrgreen:


Afraid, I haven't a clue :oops: ...........hopefully one of the other members may be able to reply to your question. [-o>
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No.............it's a 2 stroke!
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Re: TDR 125 Lightburner Belgarda - 1992

Messagede TDRSHINE le 04 Avr 2017 19:17

Phillip93 a écrit:Amazing ! I bet that all of these modifications have made a hell of a difference to the bike. I've read/heard about most of the modifications that you've done so she must go like a bomb.....
Anyway, well done, sounds brilliant
You haven't mentionned the exhaust you're using, you running the stock version? And, why not install an electronic control box for the ignition, ie, a ignitech, that'll let you change the ignition advance but also the power settings ?



Thanks for the compliments, Phillip! :D This forum is full of solutions, tips and amazingly competent people, and it is a pleasure to share with you all my passion for two strokes and TDR in particular. 8)

For this "only-track" version, I'm using the stock expansion plus a Giannelli silencer, because it is quicker about outgoing exhaust gases flow. And above all, with the stock expansion you don't loose mid-range torque and the bike has a quicker response running out of circuit curves, without stressing the clutch :twisted:

I'm seriously thinking about a programmable CDI to have the maximum personalization of advance, and I would be happy if someone in the forum that is really expert, will advise me. :D
Two strokes forever!
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Re: TDR 125 Lightburner Belgarda - 1992

Messagede OldTimer le 04 Avr 2017 20:06

Hi TDRshine,
nice to see that someone uses ways to improve this nice engine and to get good torque from low revs and not loose all only for 500 extra revs.

Regarding experts on Ignitechcs programable ingnition we do have quite a few on board.
DT-Lc 1983, Ktm Gs 1975, TDR 240 1988
2 Stroke Power !


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Re: TDR 125 Lightburner Belgarda - 1992

Messagede Phillip93 le 05 Avr 2017 8:57

TDRSHINE a écrit:I'm seriously thinking about a programmable CDI to have the maximum personalization of advance, and I would be happy if someone in the forum that is really expert, will advise me


Well, there's a lot of information available here that should help: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=14956

I know that the members "Phifi" and "PHILARTIS" seem to know they're stuff about them. You could always try sending them a PM.
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No.............it's a 2 stroke!
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Phillip93
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Re: TDR 125 Lightburner Belgarda - 1992

Messagede TDRSHINE le 05 Avr 2017 11:24

Phillip93 a écrit:Well, there's a lot of information available here that should help: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=14956

I know that the members "Phifi" and "PHILARTIS" seem to know they're stuff about them. You could always try sending them a PM.


Thanks for the link and the expert's references on this forum. They'll be very useful. :mrgreen: 8)

By the way, if you and other members of this forum have any question or curiosities about my "project", feel free to ask or to send me a PM. :D
Two strokes forever!
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TDRSHINE
 
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Re: TDR 125 Lightburner Belgarda - 1992

Messagede TDRSHINE le 05 Avr 2017 11:36

OldTimer a écrit:Hi TDRshine,
nice to see that someone uses ways to improve this nice engine and to get good torque from low revs and not loose all only for 500 extra revs.


Thanks for the compliments. :mrgreen:

Since the beginning my main aim was to raise the HPs all along the power curve and to have a stronger torque. Only this way the bike is more exploitable in any condition and gives its best thanks to her agility.

And...by the way...with my tuning I also have the extra 500 (and a little bit more) RPM :wink: 8)

I'm very curious to see the results from the dyno run to confirm my sensations about the bike.
Two strokes forever!
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TDRSHINE
 
Messages: 42
Inscription: 20 Juin 2016 10:06
Localisation: Italy
Motos: TDR 125

Re: TDR 125 Lightburner Belgarda - 1992

Messagede TDRSHINE le 04 Mai 2017 10:13

I'm posting again the images I've posted at the beginning of this topic because they've disappeared on postimage.
It's about my setting up a new engine block, with sportier configuration to use exclusively on track.

This is for the intake enhancement "kit" :

Image

This is for the carburetor enhancement :

Image

This is for the adjustable ignition :

Image

Please, go reading through the topic to have for full details and warnings. :shock: :mrgreen:
Two strokes forever!
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